Erika Kullberg is a lawyer and money expert with over 21 million followers on social media and is passionate about better positioning people for success. The Erika Taught Me podcast is based on the premise that everyone has something to teach. Each week, Erika will interview a new guest to discuss how they found success, what they have learned, and what they can teach us. A new episode comes out every Tuesday!
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I met the first lawyer of my life. I didn't know any lawyers growing up, and I asked him what the most important skill set was. And he said to be a good communicator. And Warren Buffet also says be a good communicator. That's the most important skill. But I actually think one love love to be the best skills that anyone can have if you want to get rich is to be a good salesperson, be good at selling because that means not only are you a good communicator, but you are self aware and you're persuasive in the way that you communicate. Yeah. Right. So take that a step further then because that's it. So imagine, like, you're talking to someone and you realize you said something and it didn't land. What do you do? Do you just continue to move on, or do you just acknowledge it? You know what? That did not land, and I'm able to course correct in real time and make sure that I acknowledge it. Or when someone's listening to you and they're like, I actually think this person's waiting to speak. Like, how do you adapt in real time? Like, there's like this We talk about pathological optimism a lot as, like, this, this core theme across great salespeople. It's not because they're naive. It's just because they know what a conversation sounds like when you don't need something, someone. Like, imagine if you already thought the person was on your team, already was your partner, already was a customer. How real would you be with them? So it's succinctly put, I think that the greatest sellers on the planet are showing pieces of themselves. Most people have been taught to hide since they're, you know, professional career took off. And we're just trying to get back to people like people like themselves. So why not show someone you're imperfect ASAP so that you can vibe. Yeah. What is pathological optimism? Pathological optimism is a characteristic trait that we have found across. Really great leaders, really great sellers, really great influential people. It's where someone truly believes in the upside of the conversation of the outcome. So, like, an example would be me and you were having a con today, South Bay.
Currently have, which is often not true. But, it's also often an underrated option. I see people sit in situations for so long where they're not sleeping, they're questioning themselves, their confidence has just plummeted. And I'm like, why would why haven't you left? Right? Why haven't you found a different situation? Something's gotta be better than this. So, in an ideal world, you would be able to spot a passive aggressive boss during the interview phase before you commit to working there. Is that possible? Wouldn't that be amazing? Like, I I always think about this because people often say, like, I I I thought they were wonderful. Like, in the interview process, I was so excited to work with them. They told me they cared about my growth and development. They said all the right things. And, I wish there was, like, you know, the stud finders on a wall where you try to find the stud and it, like, beeps when and turns red when you find I wish there was, like, you could find a bad boss, like, you know, you just, like, wave this thing over them and it beeps if if they're a bad boss. You know, there are some red flags. Like, I would certainly ask some questions like, how do you handle conflict? When you and someone who works for you don't see eye to eye, how does it get resolved? The person who is in this lost position, where where did they go? Right? And you have to pay such attention because they will have the right answer. Right? And then, you have to sort of pay attention to their body language, how are they reacting. You know, we have so much research material available to us now these days. Like, find someone at LinkedIn who worked for that person once. Can you send them a private message? I just think we we take people at their word, which unfortunately, most of us are pretty good liars. And so, I think we just have to and and not to say that most people are trying to deceive you. Again, that boss doesn't think they're passive aggressive. Sure. They think they might be petty sometimes, or they might be a little hot headed, or, oh, I'm not as direct as I should be. But they're not, even if you could ask them directly, are you passive aggressive? They might even
Narcissistic people, and at least a dozen studies have supported this, are very aggressive drivers. Pulling up on people's bumpers, honking, cutting people off in traffic, driving too fast even when a passenger is saying, hey. Hey. Hey. I'm anxious. In fact, that might even spur them on to drive even worse, and they might even make fun of the passenger for being nervous in the car. But that dangerous driving to me is one of those red flags that if you see it early enough in a relationship, that should be enough of a sign that you say, I'm out. Are you going to find more narcissists in certain professions? Heck, yeah. In industries that are more competitive, more financially rewarding, more powerful, and that would be things like CEOs, law, media, entertainment, athletics, anything where, again, there's a big payday and a lot of power, but those are the flashiest ones. Don't count out things like medicine, high level academia, and again, any politics, government, any of those places, you're gonna see a lot of narcissism because it's power, it's control, it's dominance, or it's money. And what determines because these narcissists often have the charisma and they're very caring from the outside, what determines whether you get to see the narcissist's true colors Mhmm. Or if you are shielded from that and only gets to the charismatic charming part. Like, is there a level where they're comfortable enough with you or because they think you're a lower status? Where it gets interesting it's a great question because does everyone ultimately see the full spectrum of the narcissist behavior, good and bad, if you spend enough time with them, probably. But the way it works is that for narcissistic people, they always wanna punch up. Right? So they want when they're with someone they perceive as having much more status, being much more sort of desirable, they will definitely put they will not behave badly, and this is it takes us to that issue of
About the weather for 10 minutes. Right? It's like that's like 45 seconds worth of conversation. I'm generalizing, but then it feels like you talk about work and what you do. And maybe then you get to who you are. Yeah. But there are so many levels that you have to get to. You wouldn't it's a very culturally not okay thing to go straight into what are your dreams and ambitions. Yeah. So it's interesting. There's this experiment, again, Nick Heffley does where brings a roomful of people together, and he assigns the strangers to talk to each other. And they have to ask and answer these questions. And the third question is when's the last time you cried in front of another person? And it's easier to do because it's an experiment. You're being told to do this. Right? It doesn't feel very awkward. So so this experiment has been done, by other people in lots of places, and they've done it in Japan as well. And what's interesting is that almost inevitably, when that question gets asked and answered in Japan, people don't talk about the last time they cried. They talk about a time that they saw their parents cry. And I think that what that suggests, and there's a lot of evidence to back this up, is that different cultures definitely have different norms, right, and different different rules almost about what we feel comfortable with and what feels habitual. But underlying them is the same basic impulse, which is the impulse is to connect, to have a real conversation, not to just, you know, talk about the weather, which is kind of boring. But that oftentimes when we're in different settings, and this is also true across, like, a little bit gender differences and and other differences, that when we're in a different setting, just being conscious of the slight difference in the norm means that it would feel totally uncomfortable at a party, I imagine, in Tokyo to ask you when's the last time you cried in front of another person. But it might actually be much more comfortable to say, like, have you ever seen your parents cry? That might not come off as the same have you ever seen your parents cry? That might not come off as the same kind of personal question. But what's important
Pandemic back in the 19 teens, World War 1, World War 2, the Vietnam War, the Korean War, you know, the war I mean, you look at stagflation, inflation. I mean, look at all the stuff that's happened since then, and the market has had volatility but has been upward trending because essentially, it's an underlying bet on the economy. And it's hard to bet against certainly the American people over any reasonable period of time. Now, how do you sort of take care of your risk? You don't want to be investing in the stock market if you're going to need the money in 6 months. If you are, your nest egg is there and you're thinking about retiring soon, that's where I mentioned before asset allocation. A place like an Ellevest will start you out with a big equity allocation because you've got the time to ride through those ups and downs. You've got the time to recover. Whereas if it's your parents and they're looking at retirement, we'd have them more in a fixed income portfolio where the risk traditionally has not been as great so that a stock market crash, for example, would not completely derail their investing. So investing in the stock market and crypto is not for everybody, but if you've got time to work on your side, then ride through it and my best advice is what I did in this latest downturn, just don't look. There is, you know, just keep on trucking, keep making your recurring deposits and don't look. Now, what I also want to talk about is the power of compounding. Because that 9 and a half percent annual return, great. Well, let's go back a step because you you earn that which in simple math is terrific. But you're earning those returns on returns, right? So you invest, you know, $100 in the market, you know, you're an up say 10% return, the next return you earn is not just on the first 100, but on 110. And then the next is on the 120. And so, you know, the secret to Warren Buffett is
